6/27/2008 - Open Water at the North Pole??? |
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Not to put too fine a point on it but HOLY SHIT!
That this could happen in my lifetime scares the crap out of me. But there's no such thing as global climate change. Uh-uh. Move along. Nothing to see here. What me worry? I'm just sayin'... |
6/27/2008 - WelshPixie Said... |
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This summer?! Jesus christ. |
6/27/2008 - texican Said... |
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I never thought I would live to see the day... |
6/27/2008 - Aielman Said... |
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/shrug
It's a weird anomoly, but globally, ice levels are remaining fairly steady. |
6/27/2008 - copperman Said... |
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This, on the surface[sic] is a worrying thing. Although that said, over the last few years I've been looking at this (climate change) from a longer term (epochal) perspective. Our planets is billions of years old, as little as 25,000 years ago the city I live in was covered by a vertical mile of ice. It may well be again, after all it's not the first time it's been that way. I have my concerns that modern societies are creating environmental issues, CFC's popping holes in the ozone layer which adds to the global warming effect for example. Or the burning of fossil fuelsm but in a longer term view these things mean little to the planet. Planetary eco-systems have a way of balancing themselves, what we as humans must do is regonise our short term place in our world and do what we feel is best to create a better (cleaner, healthier) environment to live in. |
6/27/2008 - birdsnest Said... |
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its a trend!
nothing but a trend!!! its suppose to be 127 degrees in the shade! thats normal. damn commie. |
6/27/2008 - dantesinferno Said... |
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Whoo, swim hole! |
6/27/2008 - DeeJay Said... |
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*hides head in sand*
I hate thinking about what we are doing to our planet! It scares me! |
6/27/2008 - mandaj Said... |
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it's so sad :( soon, there will be shipping routes through there. polar bears will be extinct. shorelines will drastically change. the ocean's salt content will change, affecting all ocean life. there will be more absorption of radiation because there's no ice to reflect it back into the atmosphere...seriously, melting of glaciers and sea ice is a HUGE problem.
the way i see it though...the earth will recover. but it's people, animals, plant life that will suffer. except maybe cockroaches. they adapt pretty well haha. |
6/27/2008 - Aielman Said... |
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seriously, melting of glaciers and sea ice is a HUGE problem
Seriously...no it's not. The level of ice is remaining pretty much constant. It's melting in some places and forming in others. The data is pretty consistent on that fact. The melting in this particular area is unprecedented in recent times, peculiar, and scientificlaly noteworthy, but it doesn't have anything to do with the overall amount of ice...which is what is important. |
6/28/2008 - Eclectablog Said... |
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So, Aiel, which method of ignoring and dismissing human-sourced global climate change do you prefer? Burying your head in the sand or putting your fingers in your ears while singing La-La-La-La-La...? |
6/28/2008 - OgreJehosephatt Said... |
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I don't see where Aiel dismisses global climate change. |
6/28/2008 - Eclectablog Said... |
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I put shrugging at such a significant climatological anomaly as no ice at the North Pole in that category. |
6/28/2008 - Aielman Said... |
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The amount of ice total is what is significant...not that it's melting somewhere it hasn't melted in some time. Climate change works on a planetary scale, not locally. The fact is, the amount of sea ice has increased in the last two years. Now I suppose I show this picture  which shows that the ice levels between Canada and Greenland are at the highest levels in 15 years I could hop up and down, wave my arms and say SEE LOOK...THAT PROVES IT about the lack of climate change, but that localized event is about as useful to a discussion on climate change as the localized event a thte pole is, I could even point to the chart I linked earlier, but that doesn't prove anything either. Because while that is something global, rather than the local event that has you concerned, climate change works on a scale of millenia. You can't poitn ot a trend of a few years and expect it to be meaninful.
That doesn't mean we shouln't take some common sense precautions, but it also doesn't mean we should chicken little our response either. Spending trillions of dollars in the US and Western Europe for stupidity like the ethanol craze, isn't going to do a helluva lot, if man made climate change is a reality, if the three countries with 1/2 the world's population haven't bought into the deal. It also isn't going to help if the dozen or so countries who have the majority of the world's forests keep clear cutting them and removing the world's natural carbon filters just so they can grow corn for the stupidity that is ethanol. Bankrupting ourselves so we can be on the level of the 3rd world who isn't participating in the project doesn't seem like a real smart response for something that humans may have no control over anyways. |
6/28/2008 - mandaj Said... |
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maybe there is more ice. but the thing is, it isn't thick ice. which means it will melt faster. the ice that is melting at drastic rates is ice that was very thick. both poles are experiencing drastic losses in ice. i've seen for myself how fast ice is melting. glaciers in alaska are melting at alarming rates. it's a huge problem. the more ice that melts, the more fresh water that is evaporated. glaciers are extremely important. they are a huge source of freshwater, and the fact that they are melting IS a problem.
i would like to know where you got your source so i can read it, please. but i do agree with you that ethanol is ridiculous. |
6/28/2008 - Eclectablog Said... |
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The most persuasive argument for using renewable resources like cellulosic ethanol and other biofuels in place of fossil fuels isn't the effect on greenhouse gas output, in my mind. The most persuasive argument is the one that says getting us off Middle Eastern petroleum improves our situation dramatically and makes us less dependent on other countries, particularly those in a volatile part of the world. Plus homegrown, plant-based fuels put Americans to work, not Saudis and Iraqis and other Middle Easterners. |
6/28/2008 - Aielman Said... |
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i would like to know where you got your source so i can read it, please
The first link is from the Arctic Climate Research at the University of Illinois portal and the second is a photo from Nasa. The most persuasive argument is the one that says getting us off Middle Eastern petroleum improves our situation dramatically and makes us less dependent on other countries, particularly those in a volatile part of the world The problem is, it won't. If you use every single kernel of corn in the US for ethanol, you still won't make a dent in our petrochemical needs. On top of that, it's pushing corn prices up to insane levels. Current corn future prices have topped 4 dollars a bushel...more than double what it was a short time ago. You've got riots going on in places like Mexico because the poor can't afford to eat any more. On top of that, use of biofuels not only doesn't help carbon emissions that may affect climate change, but it makes the problem worse. |
6/28/2008 - texican Said... |
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I saw on Planet Green where using every existing bit of corn would only give us about 12% of the energy that we consume. Corn-based ethanol is not the way to go. I think that non-food sources, such as algae or hemp would be better.
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6/28/2008 - Eclectablog Said... |
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Anyone who thinks the future of bioethanol is in corn is quite mistaken. The future of bioethanol is in cellulosic sources that are waste products or high-cellulose, non-food sources that are far more efficient than corn. Even bioethanol proponents never saw food-based ethanol productions as anything more than a stepping stone to cellulosic ethanol productions.
Also, anyone who thinks the path out of our energy woes is through one thing (biofuels, geothermal, wind, solar, wave, tidal, hydrogen fuels cells, and other alternative energy sources) is quite mistaken as well. No one thing will replace fossil fuels like oil, natural gas and coal. It will be a portfolio of alternative, renewable energy sources, many of which will dramatically reduce our greenhouse gas emissions while weaning us off the oil tit. And many of which are very, very close to commercialization as I write. As Rene brings up, you should see what's being done to use algae to make biodiesel. It's awesome. |
6/28/2008 - Aielman Said... |
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As Rene brings up, you should see what's being done to use algae to make biodiesel. It's awesome.
I've seen a couple articles about it...and one on a bacteria as well that look quite promising. That's another thing we'll have to figure out...how to ween America off of oil without harming the economy too much. A lot of jobs and industries tied in with petrochemicals. |
6/28/2008 - Eclectablog Said... |
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Sounds like you think it's worth staying addicted to oil if it means some oil-related jobs don't go away.
Whatevs... |
6/28/2008 - OgreJehosephatt Said... |
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I don't think that's what he said.
I agree that it's stupid to keep jobs around when there's no market for 'em just so people can keep their jobs. On the other hand, it sucks to suddenly tell people with families, mortgages, and other responsibilities that they need to find a new source of income. I mean, just exactly how much skill overlap is there between the oil industry and others? I don't know. Though I think Aiel's concern in more of a country view, rather than recognizing the individuals affected. In anycase, I think he's right when he said we need to be weened off of oil. |
6/29/2008 - texican Said... |
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I was going to say something along the lines of Ogre's comment. If we displace all of the petrochem workers, the economy will take a hit. On the flip-side, expanding the alternative energy portfolio will create different job opportunities. So, I think it can balance out.
There will probably be some jobs that can cross over directly, but I imagine that others might involve retraining. |
6/29/2008 - Aielman Said... |
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So, I think it can balance out.
Exactly. We have ot axe petrochemicals in a smart fashion or we'll shoot ourselves, and a helluva lot of people around the world, in the foot. We'll never cut our need for petrochemicals entirely. There's too many plastics and other things made from them, but we can ween ourselves off of them for heating and transportation. We just need to be smart about it and take the long view. |
6/29/2008 - mandaj Said... |
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there is a biofuel plant up here in the UP (i can't remember exactly where) that is experimenting with algae as a form of fuel. algae is really easy to grow and i think it would be better than using corn. it's pretty cool actually. who doesn't like aglae?! or am i the only retard who thinks algae is neat haha |
6/29/2008 - Aielman Said... |
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I think algae is a great idea. I have some doubts about the ability to make enough fuel on it to make a serious dent, but that remains to be seen. I just think that using crops for fuel is a terrifically bad idea for multiple reasons. |
6/29/2008 - Eclectablog Said... |
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Check out Oilgae. Making biodiesel from algae while scrubbing out CO2. Brilliant. |
6/29/2008 - texican Said... |
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Hey...pretty cool. |
7/2/2008 - bitzky Said... |
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Who needs all this ice anyway! |
Eclectablog
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Name: Mr. E (get it?) Location: Ann Arbor-ish, Michigan, USA, Earth EFx2Blogger since: September 19, 2007 |
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Some folks sleep on a problem, but you can camp on one as well. Camping is for the mind what a high-speed run on the highway is for a car. It tends to blow out all the sludge that accumulates in the type of urban driving most of us are forced to do in order to earn a living.-- Tim Cahill
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